In this episode of Caregiver Conversations, hosts Kristie King and Antonia Harbin Lamb chat with mediation expert Zena Zumeta about the vital role mediation plays in resolving conflicts within caregiving families. Zena shares valuable insights and real-life examples, highlighting how effective mediation can foster open communication, ease tensions, and ultimately enhance the caregiving experience.
In this episode, we discuss:
Key Takeaways:
Resources Mentioned:
Welcome back to Caregiver Conversations, where we bring your stories, expertise, and valuable insights on caregiving. I'm Kristie King, Executive Director of the Southeast Michigan Senior Regional Collaborative, and I'm Antonia Harbin Lamb, Staff Attorney at the Elder Law and Advocacy Center and Program Manager of the Great Lakes Legal Mediation Division.
Today we're diving into a topic that many caregivers and families face: mediation. Family mediation, elder mediation—it goes by many names, and I'm thrilled to be joined by a very special guest who is a leading expert in the field, Zena Zumeta, Mediator, Trainer, and President of the Mediation Training and Consultation Institute.
Zena, welcome to our show!
Well, I'm so happy to be here and delighted to have been invited. We are definitely excited to have this conversation today. I always say it's like a conversation among friends. You know, Zena has been along this ride. I've learned so much from her over these past few years, and it’s exciting to be able to sit down with you and Antonia for a more in-depth conversation focusing on elder mediation. So, let’s go ahead and let you do what you do, and we’ll continue to learn.
Antonia: Yeah, I actually just want to share a quick story about how I met Zena. I've known her for a number of years, and this is a really good story for me because I really didn't know much about mediation. Zena and I met when I was in law school, and she was the instructor for a mediation course that was held over a spring break term. It was an accelerated two-week class. I was really excited about it, but I had no idea what it entailed. That was my introduction to Zena, and I was very impressed. Since then, we have been friends and have done a lot together, including training, and she has taught me a tremendous amount about mediation and how important it is. I have jumped on that bandwagon too, believing it needs to be used in so many more cases. So that's my quick story—sorry for the length!
Zena: And you excelled in the class, Antonia! I was so thrilled when you decided to continue with it.
Antonia: That passion has rolled over to us. I think we were introduced in 2021, maybe 2020.
Zena: Yeah, I think you're right—2021.
Antonia: Zena, again, brings her energy, and I remember when she presented something to me, and I was like, "Yep, we can definitely make that happen." Understanding how mediation plays into some of the work that we do has brought it to the forefront for us at the Senior Regional Collaborative. It’s been a great journey, and I learn a lot. Zena is well-known in the mediation space, so I love to name-drop: “Do you know Zena Zumeta?” Because if you don’t, you should!
Zena: Absolutely! If you don’t know her, you should check in with her!
Antonia: It feels like we have a mediation superstar with us today! We have some good information to share around what mediation is, because I don’t think a lot of us think about it. Even as social workers, we sometimes think of mediation just as conflict management. But we really need to consider how mediation can change families and impact them individually and holistically in this space—not to mention for caregivers, too—because so many issues arise in caregiving that can be addressed through mediation. But I want to hear from Zena; let’s hear her thoughts on that.
Zena: Well, you know, it’s so nice to hear the two of you saying that because what it shows is that you are also passionate about mediation, which is really a method of conflict resolution that involves a third party. One of the things we see is that families struggle when there’s conflict. Most families don’t instruct their children on how to resolve conflict. When it comes time to care for an elder, conflicts arise between siblings or between the older person and their children or even grandchildren. People often get stuck and don’t know what to do, and that’s where mediation comes in to help them resolve the conflict.
Antonia: When we think about bringing in a third party to address some of the family dynamics, some people might be worried or concerned about that. What would you offer in terms of a mediator coming in and being effective in that space where families might be hesitant?
Zena: Oh, you picked up on one of the big issues! People often don’t like to air their dirty laundry in front of a stranger. I always joke that if I could get paid for the cases that settle to keep me out, I would’ve made a lot more money! One response some families have is that they’d better settle it themselves to avoid having someone come in. I think that’s fine. But what we find is that when they finally say, “Okay, let this person in,” it’s usually because they feel desperate or because the court has ordered it. In either case, they feel they have no choice and surrender to the inevitability of having this person come in.
But when we come in, we try to make it easy for them, to be non-judgmental, and to ensure they don’t feel blamed. One technique we use is to normalize the conflict by saying, “Oh yeah, I do this all the time. This is nothing new,” and, “You all are actually better than most of the other families I see.” That way, people can feel good about where they are instead of feeling bad about it. One approach is to talk to people separately first, so they aren’t in front of each other. They can discuss what’s going on individually, allowing us to build some rapport and trust in those conversations. Then, when we meet with the family as a whole, everyone is a little more relaxed because they know us, and we know a bit about their background.
Antonia: That was one of the questions I had—how do you maintain neutrality as a mediator in that space? You really have to take yourself out of it and your emotions out of it. How do you make sure that what comes across to the family is authentic while maintaining neutrality?
Zena: You’re hitting on some difficult issues here. None of us will ever be truly neutral; we just have to accept that we are who we are. We come from where we come from and have our judgments. It’s about how much we can put those judgments on the shelf. Part of it is the humility of being wrong many times. When you enter a situation with your internal assessments that turn out to be dead wrong, you learn to be open and curious about what’s going on with these people. It’s essential to find out what’s happening rather than inserting your judgments into their situation. But it always creeps in.
One of the things I learned from several people I admire is holding several realities at once. We’re almost like holders of the realities of all these people, and they need to coexist. The other concept is warm neutrality rather than cold neutrality; they need to know we care about them, and that goes a long way. The difficulty arises because there are some people we don’t feel that caring toward, and we need to create that feeling because if we don’t, they really feel it, leading to resistance and resentment.
Antonia: It’s interesting how at the mediation table, you have to create a space where people feel comfortable. It’s not about putting on a show, but rather creating a space for conversation. It’s such a layered and interesting process, and I always get excited about it. I’ve always been thrilled that we’ve been able to do these cases for families and see great outcomes—not all of them, but many.
So let’s talk a little more about the aspects of caregiving mediation. What types of topics or issues have you seen, Zena?
Zena: One classic issue is fighting over who is going to care for the older adult. Often, the caregiver is overwhelmed and wants their siblings to help more. That’s a common situation I find.
Antonia: Yes, I’ve seen similar cases, particularly regarding who will take on the responsibility of being the guardian or conservator. Families often come to mediation because they need to present a united front before the court. Just trying to make that decision can be very challenging. I've also witnessed fights among siblings after one sibling has been appointed as guardian, especially regarding decisions about moving the older adult out of their home or even out of state.
Zena: That’s a great point! So, when you’re in those spaces with families and conflicts arise over caregiving, do you provide suggested outcomes, or do you encourage families to come up with their own potential solutions?
Zena: The preferred approach is always if they can arrive at their own solutions because if anyone presents a particular outcome, they become more attached to it. However, complications can arise if one sibling presents an idea that others may not like, which can create resistance. They may also lack the same knowledge base of resources and options that we might have. For me, it’s a combination. I like to have a written list of options on a flip chart, for example, and I’ll ask permission to add ideas we’ve seen work for other families. I want them to consider these options without feeling I’m attached to them.
Antonia: I agree! I want them to bring forward the options because, as you said, the attachment and buy-in change things. They must feel confident in their suggestions. We want workable options, and I often raise questions or concerns to ensure that the options they propose are genuinely viable.
Zena: One question I have for both of you: when families come together for mediation, do you typically limit it to a one-time event, or do you expect them to come back?
Antonia: I’ve found that most families don’t want to come back.
Zena: That says a lot! Getting families to come together for mediation is often as much as they can do. However, I have had families return when issues are still unresolved, or they need further information or assessments of the older adult before making decisions.
Antonia: At our Elder Mediation Center, we typically limit sessions to two to three hours due to scheduling constraints, but we always offer the opportunity for them to return. While no one has come back yet, I think they appreciate knowing they have that option.
Zena: It sounds like you all become part of their support team!
Antonia: That’s the hope!
Zena: I have had situations where people call back to follow up or request additional resources, which is quite impressive!
Antonia: What does that pre-work look like for you, Zena? You mentioned doing some groundwork beforehand.
Zena: I like to talk to everyone who will be at the table or could be at the table ahead of time. Some people decline to come in, but I still get their perspective on concerns and attitudes. I often have homework that can be helpful for them to do or for me to do. For instance, one case involved a family that brought in documents appointing the power of attorney, and they had questions about interpreting certain clauses. They had consulted the attorney who drafted it, but since that attorney represented their parent, he couldn’t talk to them. Instead of hiring their own attorney, they decided to seek mediation.
In that case, I brought in an elder law attorney so we could review the documents beforehand and have answers for the family. In another case, there was a question about whether guardianship could be lifted after the older adult had a stroke. The family felt that it could be lifted after a few years, but I believed it would be a waste of time for them to meet without having an assessment completed first.
I ended up speaking with the older adult several times to help them feel comfortable with the assessment. By the time the family came in, the assessment had been completed, and the conversation was productive.
Antonia: I think it’s essential to look at the whole picture of mediation. When people hear the word mediation, they often feel scared. But knowing there’s a plan, that there’s an opportunity to connect and set a comfortable table, makes the process productive for families.
Zena: Absolutely! It’s essential to reassure families that they won’t fall into old arguments or unresolved issues from the past.
Antonia: Zena, is there anything else you’d like to add?
Zena: I think we want to encourage people to say what’s on their minds and what they’re concerned about without alienating others at the table. We do a lot of reframing, turning potentially offensive statements into something easier for others to hear, allowing underlying concerns to surface without judgment. Language is a huge part of what we do; we strive to create language that everyone can feel comfortable with. Additionally, we clarify what issues could be resolved versus those that may not matter in the outcome.
Often, families bring up issues from childhood that won’t influence the current situation but have been on their minds for years. We help them move past those to address what’s happening today and how they can move forward. Antonia, do you have other skills you believe are important?
Antonia: I think the communication piece is vital, especially from the start. Setting ground rules for the mediation encourages family involvement, which is essential.
Zena: That’s a good point! We often use a talking piece, where whoever has it can speak while others listen. Families appreciate that structure, as it prevents everyone from talking at once.
Antonia: Exactly! You have to find what works best for the family, but one person speaking at a time can be helpful.
Zena: Recognizing when an agreement is reached is crucial. Many people, when in conflict, tend to overlook agreements. Mediators should highlight and document any agreements made.
Antonia: You’ve both mentioned the importance of communication and looking at it from all angles, including listening, reframing, and clarifying. It’s also important to reassure families that mediation is a solution-focused event. Mediators play a critical role in facilitating healthy conversations, helping parties move forward rather than remaining stuck in problems.
Zena: One beautiful case I can share involved a family with five siblings. One sibling was appointed as power of attorney, while the others were anxious about the decisions being made regarding their mother, who had dementia. They were particularly worried about the prospect of moving her out of her town. At the mediation table, the sibling with power of attorney opened the discussion by saying they wanted input from everyone and didn’t want to make decisions alone.
The family had concerns about having this conversation in front of their mom, but she expressed that she didn’t want to be involved and trusted her children to make the right decisions. They ultimately reached an agreement on how to approach their mother’s care, and the session led to resolving other issues that had been on their minds.
Antonia: That’s a beautiful example! It sounds like that initial approach from the sibling made a significant difference. It also highlights the value of establishing rapport prior to the mediation session.
Zena: Absolutely! It’s essential to create a space for open communication, which fosters trust among family members.
Antonia: As we wrap up, what are some practical steps that caregivers can take if they feel mediation might help their situation?
Zena: Caregivers can start by discussing with their families whether they need the help of an outside person or if they think they can manage it themselves. They should reach out to someone they feel comfortable with to explore options.
Antonia: I agree. Mediation can open up numerous opportunities to address issues that caregivers may not realize are affecting them.
Zena: Exactly! It can be a valuable tool not just in crisis situations but also as a preventative measure.
Antonia: This has been a great session! Thank you, Zena, for joining us.
Zena: Thank you so much for having me! I look forward to being invited back.
Antonia: Absolutely!
Kristie: Thank you, Zena. This conversation has highlighted the importance of mediation as a valuable resource for caregivers and families facing tough decisions.
Antonia: I agree! It’s crucial to resolve conflict effectively, especially given the challenges caregivers face.
Kristie: Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Caregiver Conversations. Be sure to subscribe and download the podcast on your favorite platform to stay updated on future episodes. Don’t forget to follow us on social media and share your caregiving stories—we want to hear them! Until next time, take care and keep caring.